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Fugro NV (OTCPK:FURGF) Q2 2019 Results Earnings Conference Call July 31, 2019 6:00 AM ET
Mark Heine - CEO
Paul Verhagen - CFO
- Mark Heine - 首席执行官
- Paul Verhagen - 首席财务官
Henk Veerman -
Henk Kempen -
Lunk Beek -
Andre Mulder -
- Henk Veerman -
- Henk Kempen -
- Lunk Beek -
- 安德烈·穆德 -
Okay. Good afternoon, everybody. Welcome to the half-year results presentation of Fugro. I will start this presentation and I have the following agenda.
I will first talk about the highlights of the first half of the year. Then I'll refer back to the strategy and the strategy implementation, in particular. And then I give you some insight on how we look at the market.
And then I'll hand over for the half-year results financially to Paul Verhagen, and close out with the outlook statement.
Also a warm welcome to everybody on the webcast.
Good afternoon, everybody, or good morning. So let's have a look at the highlights for the first half year of Fugro. After a first weak quarter beginning of this year, the second quarter was significantly better and improved for the core activities because, as you know, and you have read in the press release, we have now stepped up our efforts to divest our noncore Seabed Geosolutions, which means that it's now classified as held for sale. So the presentation and all the numbers shown there will be for the continuing business.
And again, therefore, also report that the core activities have grown with 5.7%, which is mainly driven by Marine, in particular, offshore wind, oil & gas and the nautical markets.
Backlog also grew in all the regions except for Asia Pacific, which was, by design, I will come back on that a few times.
So if you look at that financially, presented here, revenue now grown to EUR 797 million. EBIT margin for the first half of the year, close to 3%, 2.9% coming from 0.1% in 2018. This is obviously strong revenue increase for the core activities and also a significantly improved margin, primarily due to Marine site characterization, but also, as stated before, the Asia Asset Integrity market turned around in that sense, not the market itself, where we have stepped in, reorganized the business there, reduced the capacity and, therefore, also reduced the losses in Marine Asset Integrity.
EBIT margin in the Americas impacted by relatively high vessel maintenance. We have communicated about that before as well, we were busy last year in the fourth quarter. Some of the maintenance moved over to this year and on top of that, unfortunately, we also have seen some unforeseen repairs and extended dry docks there.
As I said, the backlog is increasing, but also there, Asia Pacific is somewhat reduced, which has an effect on the overall backlog figures.
Now I would like to repeat something on our strategy because we are obviously very focused on implementing our strategy that we launched end of last year in November, where we have a clear strategy compass with a purpose for Fugro. Together, we create a safe and livable world.
And by doing that, we want to be the world's leading geodata specialist, helping our clients to provide valuable insight from geodata during the design, built and operating phase of their assets.
And we want to do that in a safe and sustainable manner. Actually, sustainability is a very important element in the whole Fugro strategy. It will come through by the way we operate our services, but also the services that we get involved in and the projects that we get involved in. I will give a few examples during the course of this presentation.
The 3 strategic targets are still very much focused on capturing the upturn in energy and infrastructure, differentiating by integrated digital solutions and leveraging our core expertise in new growth markets.
We have defined a few enablers as you know, and I will not go into detail there.
So if we look specifically at the priorities for the strategy implementation, they can be drawn down by these few lists here.
On the first target, capturing the upturn, we first and foremost focus on increasing our asset utilization and the effectiveness of our mobilizations.
In the past, we communicated about leakage in the projects, underutilization, and we feel that we have more to gain there if we can up the utilization and I've spoken about that in the past as well. There's still some things to gain.
But we also now very clearly communicated to the market that we are going to increase our pricing. This is not possible throughout the industry yet, but certainly in the early cyclical business, but also slowly, we see some signs that in the Marine Asset Integrity business, prices will stabilize and improve.
We have mentioned there very clearly and it's maybe good to say a few more words about that we're going to restructure some of our service offering in selected countries. And it's important to understand what we're doing there because this is basically not major reorganization in certain areas, we spoke about Asia Pacific, in particular, Asset Integrity there, where we reduced the capacity by basically bringing in vessel over to Europe and obviously, as you know, we also handed back the Southern Star due to technical problems. That has resulted altogether in restructuring the organization there and reducing the losses.
Now in several other areas of the world and an example has been given, for instance, in Qatar, but also in Oman, in Lebanon, small steps that we take in the organization on services that are not generating enough return. And we will continue to do that. That was part of our strategy and this is basically what we will review on a continuous basis and step in where needed.
On the integrated digital solution part, we are first and foremost focusing on the digital foundation, the concept that we launched last year in the strategy update, which basically means combining the geodata that we get in the various phases of a project and delivering insight of that for our customers.
And then we have spoken about all sorts of examples of remote autonomous operations and for the robotics. And I will give you a few more examples on projects there.
Last, but not least, on the third strategic target, new growth markets. I am pleased to see real movement there, particularly in the nautical markets, hydrography, cable route surveys, but also water management.
And that brings me to 2 examples. The first example where we basically have done on the remote side, the first project, remotely positioning an FPSO from our control center -- our new control center in Aberdeen, which was opened in June.
这让我想到了两个例子。第一个例子，我们基本上是在远程方面完成的，第一个项目是从我们的控制中心远程定位FPSO - 我们在Aberdeen的新控制中心于6月开放。
We are very pleased to report that now we have more than 100,000 project hours globally out of our 7 remote control centers, and this new center has also the capability to operate ROV operations remotely.
This was one of the first projects that we did out of this center, I think, which is a good milestone so to say, and we'll move forward. All these kind of operations are very important thinking about sustainability. This means that less people go offshore, some of the services that we used to supply with people onboard of the vessels or the FPSO or the tugboats that are involved do not have to travel by helicopter to the site and can be operated remotely. This is definitely something that we will continue to expand on, and I'll have another example later on in the presentation.
One other example, particularly in the new growth markets is the California Delta Conveyance project and this Sacramento-San Joaquin Bay Delta supply -- drinking water project is supplying drinking water to 27 million people in the southern part of California.
And it's very important, this is an earthquake prone area.
There's obviously risk involved there if something goes wrong there around earthquakes, and this is a structure that was developed in the '60s and they have decided now to completely restructure and redefine and redesign this conveyance of water. And we are supplying many services there, which is geological assessment, geophysics, drilling, sampling, laboratory testing, but also, obviously, using our consultancy and our earthquake expertise and engineering in that area. A good example of a project where Fugro is contributing to a safe and livable world.
Then progress on the divestments. I think one of the key things, and you have read that in the press release this morning, we have stepped up our efforts around our stake in Seabed Geosolutions to divest this element of the business. And we're obviously fully aligned with our partner CGG there who also communicated that they want to divest Seabed Geosolutions. And I have to make it very clear here, we believe that this is a promising business moving forward.
The worst is behind us. We have obviously communicated about some difficult projects on the execution side, but we're getting to an end of these projects and that means that the worst is behind us and the market is looking promising moving forward, which is, for us, also the reason that now multiple parties have shown interest and, therefore, we felt that this is the right moment to classify this business as held for sale.
Global Marine is not a lot of new things to report on. You all know that the main shareholder has -- HC2 has communicated that they want to divest this part of their business, and we are fully aligned with them and we will follow them.
Some signs that there are some movement maybe can be concluded from the fact that Huawei has already communicated they want to sell their 51% stake in the joint venture between Global Marine and Huawei, Huawei Marine Systems. And this is very likely going to Hengtong.
另一个例子，特别是在新的增长市场中，加州三角洲运输项目和萨克拉门托 - 圣华金湾三角洲供应 - 饮用水项目正在为加利福尼亚州南部的2700万人提供饮用水。
然后在撤资上取得进展。我认为其中一个关键问题，你已经读过，在今天早上的新闻稿中，我们加大了对Seabed Geosolutions股权的努力，以剥离这一业务要素。而且我们显然与我们的合作伙伴CGG完全一致，他们也传达了他们想剥离Seabed Geosolutions的信息。我必须在此明确表示，我们相信这是一项前景光明的事业。
Global Marine并没有很多值得报道的新事物。你们都知道主要股东 - 慧聪已经表示他们想要剥离他们这部分业务，我们完全与他们保持一致，我们会跟着他们。
And then the last element, the last block there refers to Finder. Finder is basically boiling down to these 3 bullets. First and foremost, it's all return that we can expect hopefully later. It's a multiyear investment that Fugro has made and the returns will follow in the future. And one of the things is a royalty agreement on 4 Bedout permits and those will have a return when production starts happening.
Three licenses were sold to Sapura in exchange of the development of the expiration permits so to say. That is now under the responsibility of Sapura and Fugro still retains 50% of these licenses.
And last, but not least and maybe some of you have not seen that before, we have a 50% share in Theia Energy, which is a promising onshore shale development and this is an area where the government recently lifted the moratorium.
And that brings me to the section of the market update. First by starting to show what kind of share Fugro has in the various key markets that we operate in. You have seen this picture before, but then with different data. Obviously, the growth, on the revenue side, 5.7% and then in the second part, you see where this growth is sitting. A lot in renewables again, 23%. The last year we saw a big growth of -- for the full year of 139%. It's difficult to beat that one, but certainly still steep growth in renewables, but also nautical, which is hydrography, cost of protection surveys and all these kind of things related to the shoreline protection is growing rapidly. It's small, but it's growing.
Power, you see a big negative there, which is maybe surprising, but, again, I can say that this is related to the Hinkley project in U.K. where we had in 2018 -- in the beginning of 2018, still quite a large income for these projects -- for this project.
Infrastructure is down. It's good to report that -- and that has an effect on the results of the Land division. Nevertheless, on land business, it's good to note that the second part of the first half of the year, the second quarter, was already significantly better than the first quarter.
Also good to note here is that now almost half of our business is related to non-oil and gas activity, which is increasing the diversity of the types of business that we're doing.
If we then look at the market forecast. So to say, on various key indicators, this is the forecast for 2019 versus 2018, then the market expects and the reports basically produced there report a 5% decrease in the Brent oil price. These are estimates. Obviously, these are not our own data and you can see how much value you want to give this and you see enough reports yourself.
This is all based on $60 to $70 price if you look at this forecast, for instance, on the final investment decisions and the expenditure for the oilfield services. Plus 9%, that's the largest growth that we have seen up till now since the crisis.
GDP growth still around 3.3%. Offshore wind now for the third time I think that we present this above 30% growth, which is remarkable. Infrastructure, a little bit down to 6%, used to be 7%.
然后是最后一个元素，最后一个块指的是Finder。 Finder基本上可以归结为这三颗子弹。首先，我们可以期待以后的所有回报。这是Fugro已经进行的多年投资，并且未来将会有回报。其中一项是关于4 Bedout许可的特许权使用费协议，那些将在生产开始时获得回报。
这让我想到了市场更新的部分。首先，开始展示Fugro在我们经营的各个主要市场中拥有什么样的份额。您之前已经看过这张照片，但随后又看到了不同的数据。显然，收入方面的增长率为5.7％，然后是第二部分，您可以看到这种增长所处的位置。很多可再生能源，23％。去年我们看到了大幅增长 - 全年增长了139％。很难打败那个，但当然仍然是可再生能源的急剧增长，但也有航海，水文，保护成本调查和所有这些与海岸线保护有关的事情正在迅速增长。它很小，但它正在增长。
权力，你看到一个很大的负面影响，这可能是令人惊讶的，但是，我可以说这与英国的辛克利项目有关，我们在2018年 - 在2018年初，仍然有相当大的收入这些项目 - 用于这个项目。
基础设施萎缩。报告这一点很好 - 这对土地划分的结果有影响。然而，在土地业务方面，值得注意的是，今年上半年的第二季度，即第二季度，已经明显好于第一季度。
Then the key markets of Fugro, slightly differently indicated. They are the offshore oil and gas growing with a CAGR of 6%. And I've mentioned that before that '18 is the absolute low point in this graph and as you know, Fugro was already growing in oil and gas in '18, so we're a little bit earlier in the cycle there.
Offshore wind, 18%, which is similar steep growth as we've shown before, small difference and then onshore energy combined with the onshore infrastructure work that we do, 7% growth.
I will zoom in a little bit on the offshore element, offshore oil and gas.
So on the next slide, comes up there, you can see the FID commitments. So on the left side, again, it's 6% growth for the offshore oilfield services, the number of FIDs in 2019 estimated to get to 99 and the committed CapEx for these FIDs are now EUR 179 billion, which is obviously with the additional 99 FIDs significant and will determine how much investment is made in the future in these business segments.
Where is the money spent? As seen on the next slide and this is the E&P cycle. Basically, where you see first exploration growing and as also seen in a number of seismic companies that have reported results already. They are also seeing that back in their numbers. But if you look at the expenditure between greenfield and brownfield, there you see a big difference, big growth in greenfield and a reduction in brownfield.
And this is also I think positive news for companies like Fugro that are operating in these fields.
Production OpEx is also increasing and also the abandoning cost, which has stayed behind for too long, has been spoken about for many years, is now finally increasing also.
Now if we have a look at shale, which is obviously a topic that is hot. Shale has grown rapidly over the years and you can see that also in these graphs how the expenditure is done in the oil and gas field on and offshore together.
But for us, it's important to see that now also in the years to come, and this is a forecast for 2019, '20 and '21, the blue boxes are growing again, so there is more work in the deep offshore development, the deepwater, but also in the offshore shallow water developments. So that is also returning, maybe slower than some people expected, but certainly coming back. But also good to know that still shale is very prominently visible.
One thing on infrastructure, just an example. We have spoken about that the world is becoming a more complex place to live. We have a lot of people or population growth and urbanization coming up 800,000 people getting to cities per week to meet the target of 1.4 additional people -- billion additional people in cities by 2050.
That also means that infrastructure becomes more complex and here you see a graph on the number of tunnel projects and the number of kilometers of tunnels that need to be developed in the years to come with a beautiful picture on a Fugro rig there on the Thames in London, developing also the data or gathering the data, acquiring the data for this tunnel project over there.
关于基础设施的一件事，只是一个例子。我们已经谈到世界正在变得更加复杂。我们有很多人或人口增长和城市化，每周有80万人到达城市，以达到增加1.4人的目标 - 到2050年，城市将增加10亿人。
A big growth there expected. It's one of the asset classes that Fugro is now serving, and we believe that with our expertise, we can play an important role.
Then I have a number of examples of projects. I thought it was maybe interesting to give you some very specific examples of what is Fugro doing over the last couple of months and quarters. And I'll show examples from all the regions. Here still the revenue split between the regions. Obviously, a large share in Europe and Africa that is now combined in 1 region, but also in the Americas, Asia Pacific and then obviously, Middle East a little bit smaller.
The first project is a very typical site characterization project, Marine site characterization project with equipment setup developed by Fugro, the Clair Ridge site characterization. And this is very complex dataset that we're gathering, complex soil, and we use all sorts of equipment to gather the right geodata with AUV, but also with 3D UHR, 2D UHR, side-scan sonar, hull-mounted profilers, multibeam echosounder, seismic processing, obviously mammal detection. If you work nowadays offshore, you need to also do mammal detection and also, passive acoustic monitoring.
A lot of things that are coming to play in one go on one of our sophisticated survey vessels and gathering data of the soil, ship service information, basically determining where the boulders are in the ship service. Very important and we're also doing all sorts of trials to actually automatically detect these boulders out of the data, which is self-learning computer algorithms that we will use more and more moving forward for data processing.
Another very typical Dutch example is the quarry monitoring project in Valkenburg. You see a map there of the quarry there and we have fiber-optic sensors installed. So there is a 10-kilometer fiber-optic cable running through these quarries with 80-plus monitoring points and basically, real-time gathering data for the safety of these quarries, which is basically helping 300,000 visitors that come to these quarries to visit the place. Very interesting project. Also, very strongly related to building a safe and livable world.
Another project that is I think a good example of building a safer and a more livable world is the Lake Michigan project and that is ongoing as we speak.
Very complex drilling with a vessel on the lake there. They're building a tunnel to put an existing pipeline in there just to basically protect the environment. If something goes wrong with the pipeline, it's protected by the tunnel there, which is again a good example of safe and livable world.
We work for a client here in good cooperation and the benefits there are obviously risk reduction. It's an important project for them to show the environment there that we take care of their surroundings and basically acquire again the geodata that is needed to build these tunnels ship service.
So this is below the lakebed. And we're drilling 100 to 200 feet deep boreholes and these are 4-inch boreholes in the bedrock to get that information.
第一个项目是一个非常典型的场地特征描述项目，海洋场地特征描述项目，由Fugro开发的设备设置，Clair Ridge场地特征描述。这是我们收集的非常复杂的数据集，复杂的土壤，我们使用各种设备来收集AUV的正确地理数据，还使用3D UHR，2D UHR，侧扫声纳，船体安装的轮廓仪，多波束回声测深仪，地震处理，明显哺乳动物检测。如果您现在在海上工作，您还需要进行哺乳动物检测以及被动声学监测。
Coming back again on remote positioning. One of the first remote control centers we had in the world was in the Gulf of Mexico, in the U.S. and there, we have now done many projects for remote rig positioning and vessel positioning using our proprietary Fugro OARS technology. Out of the office, significantly reduced crews offshore, reducing CO2 footprint. Again, contributing to a sustainable world.
Clients are very enthusiastic there, and we see the activity further increasing more and more. We also manage to actually reduce the amount of time that sometimes these rig moves are -- or the time that is required to get the operation done. So we're really helping our customer in a more efficient operation.
One more example, everyone move to the next slide. Here we go. This is the 2019 project for GMGS, which is projects that we have done for the Chinese government. We have done a number of them, and we have communicated about them before. This is quite complex research project and the Chinese government has an extensive 10-year program to do research on gas hydrates in the South China Sea. We have helped them with a number of projects before.
These are long and large projects and complex because you have to capture the gas hydrates under the water, deeply under pressure so that you can do all the research on the samples that they get, which is a very good cooperation with the Chinese there, and we're very pleased that we can continue to serve them. A multiyear effort that has been ongoing for us for the last 5 years-or-so.
The next project is also in the same area in Asia Pacific, where we help the building industry and this is in particular a large organization, Country Garden and that is one of the top 500 largest public companies of the world. They develop a lot of real estate and obviously, with these large towers that need to be developed, there is a complex consultancy question that needs to be answered around the soil conditions, the site characterization on land.
And this is typically a project where we can combine all our expertise in the consultancy, gathering the data that we need to help this customer to model and design the buildings and their real estate that they have in mind.
And then the last example that I want to show moving to the Middle East, to the UAE, is a project that we do also in other areas of the world with our roadware technology and we basically help the customer here, the government, to inspect the conditions of the road and also the surrounding.
We can have a very detailed equipment on the vehicles to see where the conditions are and help them to make their maintenance plans moving forward.
And with that, I would like to hand over to Paul Verhagen to go into the results, financial results, in more detail and I will be back with you for the outlook of the year. Paul?
客户在那里非常热情，我们看到活动越来越多。我们还设法减少有时这些钻机移动的时间 - 或者完成操作所需的时间。因此，我们真正帮助客户提高运营效率。
Thanks, Mark. Financials. So you've seen a lot of very interesting great projects. I always are amazed to see what fuel can do, but equally important what does that mean financially and in particular, for this group of people, I believe that's very interesting.
First, key messages, very similar to what Mark already has said. Obviously, strong margin improvement, driven by Marine. Land has had a difficult disappointing start, but improved in Q2, which is important.
Mixed regional performance, will come back to that. Seabed classified as held for sale as you know by now. Negative free cash flow, which is very much in line with our seasonal pattern. First half negative, second half positive. All covenants met. We'll come back on that one. And last point, we have gotten an extension of our revolving credit facility to May 2021, which is almost 2 years from now, providing increased refinancing flexibility.
Recovery continues clearly. You see here the revenue and EBIT of our Marine division, steep as -- of the group, split in Marine and Land. And steep growth in Marine, 9.2%. Land was low-single-digit, down minus 1.8% for the group growth of 5.7% on the back of last year's growth of more than 16%. So this is second year, pretty healthy growth year-on-year.
EBIT, major improvement in Marine, EUR 23 million, Land down EUR 1 million, but Q2 in Land was better than last year's Q2, but yes, because of a disappointing Q1, the first half year was slightly down for Land. But overall, yes, almost 3% margin improvement in the first half year for the continuing business for our core activities.
Mixed regional performance. In terms of growth, you see Europe-Africa growing. You see Americas growing steeply. APAC, by design, a decline in revenue. Middle East growing and a positive FX effect because of strengthening of the dollar mainly and dollar-correlated currencies.
In EBIT, you see there the increase in Europe-Africa, EUR 28 million. Americas, very disappointing, EUR 27 million revenue growth, 17% currency comparable growth. I will come back to that later on why we see this year-on-year EBIT decline. APAC reduced losses and Middle East and Asia more or less flat.
So now a little bit more detail per region. I should know we have changed our top management structure. We report by region, but continue to also give information by division.
So first, Europe-Africa. Strong growth in Marine. Land down somewhat in particular because of the reasons mentioned on the slides. Reduced work scope on the certain projects, mainly in the U.K. and also some delays of certain projects, customer delays, not because of us.
But yes, EBIT, strong improvement from 2% to double-digit margin, 10.5%. A very, very good performance in the first half of the year and to a large extent, driven by Marine, in particular, Marine site characterization. But also, Marine Asset Integrity is performing very well in Europe-Africa.
Americas, as I said, 17% currency comparable growth. So you would expect obviously a steep improvement in the bottom line, that did not happen unfortunately. And the only thing I can say there is that we do expect a significant improvement in the second half because the issues that we've seen in the first half are dealt with. They are history.
混合区域表现。就增长而言，您看到欧洲 - 非洲在增长。你看到美洲陡峭增长。按设计，亚太地区的收入下降。由于美元主要与美元相关货币走强，中东地区增长并产生积极的外汇效应。
在EBIT中，您看到欧洲 - 非洲增加了2800万欧元。美洲非常令人失望，收入增长2700万欧元，17％的货币可比增长。稍后我会再回过头来看看为什么我们看到同比EBIT下降。亚太地区减少损失，中东和亚洲或多或少持平。
首先，欧洲 - 非洲。海洋强劲增长。由于幻灯片中提到的原因，特别是降落了一些。某些项目的工作范围缩小，主要是在英国，还有一些项目的延误，客户延误，不是因为我们。
但是，是的，息税前利润，强劲的改善从2％到两位数的利润率，10.5％。今年上半年非常非常好的表现，在很大程度上是由海洋，特别是海洋现场特征描述推动的。而且，海洋资产完整性在欧洲 - 非洲也表现得非常好。
We had quite a few vessels in maintenance because we had a very busy Q4 last year. We pushed out some scheduled maintenance of last year into this year, but, unfortunately, it was compounded by some unforeseen repair work that took longer than anticipated even longer than we thought, end of Q1.
We had to charter quite a few vessels because you can imagine, we've 17% currency comparable growth that the backlog was well filled. So we had to incur a lot of additional cost to get the work done. Very unfortunate with such a strong backlog and as a result, you see this year-on-year decline of EUR 3 million EBIT last year to minus EUR 14 million.
Having said that, we do expect a significant improvement in the second half.
APAC revenue declined, at least in Marine Asset Integrity, Marine site characterization was growing. Land site characterization also declined, mainly pressured by a challenging Hong Kong market where we have a very strong presence.
Results up nevertheless, in particular, because of the actions taken in Marine Asset Integrity. We have reduced capacity. We've further restructured the organization. We've taken out costs and, as Mark already said, we also clearly focus on better margin projects going forward, which is important to, of course, bring this still negative minus EUR 6 million into a positive territory, but the first step has been taken from minus EUR 16 million to minus EUR 6 million.
Middle East and India, steady margin. Growth, in particular, in Marine Site Characterization, especially in Qatar. Also healthy growth in Land characterization and Land Asset Integrity. EBIT margin, more or less stable, 7.6%, 7.1%. In absolute terms, it goes up a little bit, but as a percentage of revenue, down a little bit. And partially, that is impacted by the whole geopolitical and economic environment in that region. There's quite a few things going on as you know.
Seabed held for sale. Good revenue growth. We had 2 node crews working in the first half year, full half year, and also the shallow water crew.
Start of S-79 project was actually anticipated, as we said in the beginning of Q1, to start beginning of May. It has started now, but somewhere first half of July, so it has been delayed, mainly due to logistic issues and permit -- permitting issues. The good news is it has started, the bad news is it has impacted, of course, H1 because it started later.
In addition, we have these 3 projects that you, by now, I believe, are aware of. Two of them have been completed. It's good news.
One got into more trouble, mainly because of bad weather. We entered significant bad weather periods that led to a change in our acquisition strategy and that has led to an extension of 6, 7, maybe 8 weeks. We hope and we think now we will be completing this project end of September. So also Q3 will still be impacted by this project, but then after that, we will have the worst behind us, as Mark has said. It's a very interesting business. Still the market is growing tremendously. S-79 has started, which is positive. There's a lot of tendering going on. So overall, it's a good moment to -- we believe to start discussions or to have discussions about a divestment.
一个人遇到了更多麻烦，主要是因为天气不好。我们进入了重大恶劣天气期，导致我们的收购策略发生变化，并导致延长6,7周，可能是8周。我们希望并且我们现在认为我们将在9月底完成这个项目。因此，Q3仍将受到这个项目的影响，但在此之后，我们将面临最糟糕的情况，正如Mark所说。这是一项非常有趣的业务。市场仍在大幅增长。 S-79已经开始，这是积极的。有很多招标正在进行中。总的来说，这是一个好时机 - 我们相信开始讨论或讨论撤资。
And also on the year-on-year comparison, maybe as a side note, last year, the plus EUR 3 million included EUR 5 million one-off, which we disclosed related to the sale of cables. So the net comparison is minus EUR 2 million to minus EUR 20 million, but still not good obviously.
Strong reduction in net loss from continuing operations. You see a lot of numbers on this slide, I will not dwell too long on it. But the net loss from continuing operations was minus EUR 40 million the last year. And the pro forma, if you forget IFRS 16 for a moment because that's like-for-like, is from minus EUR 40 million to minus EUR 12 million. So a significant improvement, still negative though.
Other important point on this slide is the reduced tax expense. As I said previously, we have quite a lot of unrecognized DTAs still and sooner or later, we will start benefiting from that. Also this half year, we have been able to recognize some previously unrecognized DTAs and that's reflected on the tax line, which is positive.
Including the Seabed impairment of goodwill of EUR 61 million, there's still a few million goodwill remaining, not a lot, less than EUR 5 million. Yet a net loss basically doubled from minus EUR 40 million to minus EUR 80 million.
Working capital was good. Please note from '18 onwards, it's continuing operations. Before that, it included Seabed. The working capital of Seabed has always been better than the average of the group, which you can see. Seabed has a lot of large projects where we can do a lot of back-to-back agreements with suppliers. So it's typically a business that -- where working capital can be very efficiently managed and that's also reflected in this slide because the moment the Seabed is taken out, you see it jumping up.
But also Land and Marine and the regions that it did a great job in managing working capital, DRO of 87 days, which is good and the increase that you see in absolute terms is all related to revenue growth.
Capital employed. Not a lot to mention here. It's EUR 1.2 billion. By the way, this is -- capital employed is still pre-IFRS 16. IFRS 16 will not change a lot, a few million to this picture. So it's not really relevant.
I think most important here is the Seabed part. The impairment, we had a capital employed end of last year of EUR 147 million. It's now for EUR 81 million in our books, 100%, and the equity part is EUR 63 million in our books.
And valuation is based on fair value because it's held for sale, while previously, it was based on value in use. So a different valuation principle has been used here.
Negative free cash flow in the first half. Yes, very normal. As I said, we always see an increase in Q2 and Q3 because these are our seasonal quarters. Revenue goes up. Q4, Q1 low. So in the second half, you will see a cash inflow. You've seen it last year, the year before, the year before, et cetera. It will also happen this year.
There's EUR 13 million impacts from IFRS 16. Obviously, that's reclassed from cash flow -- from operations to cash flow from financing. Ultimately, cash does not change, of course, as a result of IFRS 16. Resulting in minus EUR 34 million cash for the first half.
营运资金很好。请注意，从18年开始，它将继续运营。在此之前，它包括Seabed。 Seabed的营运资金一直比集团的平均水平要好，你可以看到。 Seabed有很多大型项目，我们可以与供应商签订许多背靠背协议。所以这通常是一项业务 - 可以非常有效地管理营运资金，这也反映在这张幻灯片中，因为在海底被取出的那一刻，你会看到它跳起来。
资本就业。这里没什么好提的。这是12亿欧元。顺便说一句，这是 - 资本就业仍然是国际财务报告准则第16号之前。国际财务报告准则第16号不会改变很多，几百万就不会改变。所以它并不真正相关。
国际财务报告准则第16号的影响为1300万欧元。显然，这是从现金流中重新分配的 - 从运营到融资的现金流。当然，最终，现金不会因国际财务报告准则第16号而改变。上半年的现金减去3400万欧元。
Important, the extended RCF maturity, has extended to May 2021, which basically gives us 6 months more for refinancing. So it gives us more time. It gives us more flexibility.
We have a wider window to review options, explore alternatives, et cetera, et cetera. Once we have more news on that, we will, of course, inform you. But overall, this is good news because it allows us to continue our improvement trajectory that we see and hopefully, also chip-in some proceeds from divestments, which is not unimportant.
Net debt. You see a lot of different lines there. The EUR 735 million is the net debt for continuing operations, the EUR 757 million including discontinued and for covenant purpose, it's the EUR 327 million. And if you forget IFRS 16 for a second, it's EUR 570 million. So I think that's the most relevant number on this slide to remember.
Within all covenants. That's important, obviously. Also important to note that this includes Seabed. So for the covenant calculation, held for sale or not held for sale, continuing, not continuing, IFRS 16, no IFRS 16, it's all irrelevant. It's frozen GAAP. It includes Seabed.
So only if and when Seabed will be divested, that's the moment when, yes, basically the impact of the negative EBITDA of Seabed in the last 4 quarters will be taken out and then you'll see a further improvement obviously in these covenants. But even including a disappointing performance of Seabed, we stayed well within our covenants, which obviously is important.
That said, I hand back to Mark for the outlook.
净债务。你会看到很多不同的线条。 7.35亿欧元是持续经营的净债务，包括已终止和用于契约目的的7.57亿欧元，为3.27亿欧元。如果您忘记IFRS 16一秒钟，则为5.7亿欧元。所以我认为这张幻灯片上最相关的数字是要记住的。
Thank you, Paul. Okay. Then we go back to the backlog, which I think we have spoken about already somewhat. Backlog increases a little bit compared to last year, 12 months rolling backlog. And we believe it's a healthy backlog, especially if you take in account that, obviously, Asia Pacific, where we have restructured the Marine Asset Integrity business came down significantly by design. So that is obviously affecting the backlog moving forward.
So we are pleased with the backlog that we have shown here. Then to end our presentation here and then we'll open up for questions. The outlook for the remainder of the year, for the full year, so to say, from continuing operations, as stated in the press release, continued revenue growth, further EBIT margin improvement, positive free cash flow and a CapEx now guided around EUR 70 million for the continuing business. That's the outlook for the full year for the continuing business.
With that, I would like to complete the presentation and basically invite Paul to open up for questions, and thank you very much for your attention.
Is there anybody with a question?
Q - Henk Veerman
It's Henk Veerman from Kempen. First question, actually 2 questions on Marine. The first one, you encountered 2, I think, negative one-offs in Marine. The first one was the vessel maintenance in the U.S., the second one, I think, sale of Southern Star vessel in Asia. And yet you managed to surprise I think consensus significantly in Marine on earnings. Could you maybe indicate what margins, EBIT margins were excluding, let's say, assuming a clean quarter?
这是Kempen的Henk Veerman。 第一个问题，实际上有2个关于海洋问题 第一个，你认为在Marine中遇到了2个负面的一次性。 第一个是美国的船舶维修，第二个是我认为在亚洲出售南星船舶。 然而你却惊讶于我认为海军对收益的共识很大。 您是否可以指出哪些利润率，息税前利润率被排除在外，假设是一个干净的季度？
Paul, you want to answer that one?
Yes, I could answer it, but I'm not sure if I want to answer it. You're right. The results would have been significantly better if that would not have happened. Yes, we're not going to disclose precisely how much the impact of these issues has been. But for instance, for the U.S., you can do your own math assuming that contracts did not get worse, although I have to say, in the U.S., there was still a few contracts from 2017 that were executed now with very low margin because they were captured at the bottom of the market.
But nevertheless there were also quite a few good contracts that were contracted later. We have a 17% revenue growth and we've plus of EUR 2 million last year, you would expect a number significantly more than EUR 2 million. And we ended up with minus EUR 14 million, so that's at least an indication.
For APAC, yes, Q1 was difficult and challenging amongst all because of the reasons you mentioned. That was gone for a large part in Q2 and there we saw margins improving and you see the reduced loss in APAC of EUR 10 million. So it's a material impact. But I think you can reasonably do the math of how large that impact is more or less.
And I think maybe to add there, maybe have a look at European-Africa region where you see already decent margin if you're growing and you don't have any particular issue in your business.
我想也许可以在那里添加，也许看看欧洲 - 非洲地区，如果你在增长并且你的业务中没有任何特定问题，你会看到已经不错的保证金。
A follow-up on that. The backlog in Marine is almost flat year-on-year, probably with some improved pricing though. I think it's also fair to say that the OpEx savings in Marine have more or less now all materialized and maybe you'll encounter some cost inflation even from loans. So is it fair to assume, I think all factors considered, that you still guide us for an EBIT margin in the sort of the medium to long term of 10%, 13%. That's because of the pricing and because of the, let's say, the more one-off type of issues that you faced in the first half, that a 10% to 13% is still doable?
对此采取后续行动。 Marine的积压量与去年同期基本持平，但可能会有一些改善的定价。 我认为可以公平地说，海外的OpEx储蓄现在或多或少都已实现，甚至可能从贷款中遇到一些成本上涨。 因此，我认为考虑所有因素，你仍然可以指导我们在中长期10％，13％的息税前利润率。 这是因为定价，并且因为，比如你在上半年面临的一次性问题，10％到13％的问题仍然可行吗？
Yes. So I can respond to that. You're referring to the midterm targets, which we guided for between 2021 and 2023. So there's a window there between 10% and 13% for the Marine activities. We still believe that this is possible.
是。 所以我可以回应。 你指的是我们在2021年到2023年之间引导的中期目标。因此海洋活动的窗口在10％到13％之间。 我们仍然相信这是可能的。
Okay. Clear. On the cash flow, I noticed that you changed the phrasing a bit of the cash from operations/cash from operations post investments guidance. Is that basically because due signs disappointed the results? Or have you also changed your view on second half cash flow generation now versus, let's say, at the start of the year when you gave the initial guidance?
好的。 明确。 在现金流量方面，我注意到你从投资指导后的运营/现金中改变了一些现金。 这是否基本上是因为应有的迹象令结果失望？ 或者您是否也改变了对下半年现金流量生成的看法，而不是说，在您提供初步指导的年初？
For cash flow, you've seen the whole press release is based on continuing operations. Also the outlook is based on the continuing operations. So for continuing operations, we still expect a positive cash flow for free cash flow, which is the same as operating cash flow after investments. It's the shorter word for the same.
So if you refer to that, it's exactly the same. For Seabed, the focus is on the divestment now. And we deal with the cash once we get there, but the focus is, as we said, it's held for sale. There's multiple interested bodies that has the focus and it's less relevant I believe now to include that in outlook statement for a update that is fully focused on continuing operations.
对于现金流量，您已经看到整个新闻稿都是基于持续运营。 前景也是基于持续的运营。 因此，对于持续经营，我们仍然预计自由现金流有正现金流，这与投资后的经营现金流相同。 这是相同的短语。
所以如果你提到它，那就完全一样了。 对于Seabed来说，现在的重点是撤资。 一旦我们到达那里，我们就会处理现金，但正如我们所说，重点是出售。 有多个感兴趣的机构有重点，而且相关性较低，我认为现在将其包含在outlook声明中，以便更新完全专注于持续运营。
Because you also let-go of the net debt to EBITDA guidance being lower year-end '19 versus year-end 2018, also didn't see that statement anymore in the press release.
That's correct because that's actually I think the only indicator that is based on including Seabed because the covenant definition is based on frozen GAAP including all, basically, activities that we have until divested. And because of the disappointing result of Seabed in the first half, still one project will impact Q3. At the same time, S-79 started, the tender activity is good. The market is growing.
As Mark said, it's still a very interesting business going forward. But for covenant calculation, we have to take that into account and if Seabed would still be in our books then it will be a challenge maybe to reach that EUR 2.2 million. I'm not saying it's not possible, but it will definitely be a challenge. Where we are very comfortable is that it will significantly improve including Seabed as well. That's what we guided for now.
这是正确的，因为实际上我认为这是唯一基于包括Seabed的指标，因为契约定义基于冻结的GAAP，包括所有基本上我们在剥离之前所拥有的活动。 由于Seabed上半年令人失望的结果，仍有一个项目将影响Q3。 与此同时，S-79开始，招标活动良好。 市场正在增长。
正如马克所说，这仍然是一项非常有趣的事业。 但是对于契约计算，我们必须考虑到这一点，如果Seabed仍然在我们的书中，那么将达到220万欧元的挑战将是一个挑战。 我不是说这不可能，但肯定会是一个挑战。 在我们非常舒适的地方，包括Seabed在内的它将会得到显着改善。 这就是我们现在所指导的。
Okay. Clear. And if I assume you will divest Seabed already this year and I do the math on that then I think based on the covenant calculation, you would already sort of delever towards 1.5x net debt to EBITDA by year-end. Is that how I should see it?
好的。 明确。 如果我认为你今年已经剥离Seabed并且我在那里做数学计算，那么我认为根据契约计算，你会在年底之前将1.5倍的净负债与EBITDA挂钩。 这是我应该怎么看？
Yes. I'm not going to confirm the number, but you are right. There will be another big improvement in the leverage covenants because of the negative EBITDA that we've seen in the most recent 4 quarters of Seabed, so yes. But it is 1.5x, that's your words, that's not my words. But it will significantly improve.
是。 我不打算确认号码，但你是对的。 杠杆契约将会有另一个重大改进，因为我们在Seabed的最近四个季度中看到了负EBITDA，所以是的。 但它是1.5倍，这是你的话，那不是我的话。 但它会显着改善。
Last question on Land. You indicated you will step-up the efforts to make sure that the margin will increase in the next periods to come. Could you maybe elaborate a bit on what kind of actions you're expecting to take? And also should we expect a significant decline of sales since you also indicated that you want to phase out the low margin projects.
土地上的最后一个问题 您表示您将加紧努力，以确保未来几个月的保证金将增加。 你能否详细说明一下你期望采取什么样的行动？ 此外，我们还应该预计销售量会大幅下降，因为您还表示要逐步淘汰低利润项目。
Yes. So on the land side, we have to be clear. We are not satisfied with the results right now, too flat. And as I show the market -- the infrastructure market where we're primarily operating in Land is growing faster than the Fugro business right now or at least the forecast shows a faster growth. So we want to obviously improve the margins there as well that has been part of the path to profitable growth strategy. So it has always been included there. But we review that on a very regular basis. So we take additional measures where needed. This is not something that we step in drastically in one particular area or so. This is really looking at the details of the business and say, well, maybe this service line in a particular area.
We should not continue with or maybe go a little bit slower on because it's not generating the return that we expect. So and examples that I've given are clear.
We have communicated in the press release about the Land business in Qatar. Oman, we're stepping in as well. There are some other elements like South Africa, we have stepped in Africa, and the past was actually drastically reorganized, that was already behind us in 2018.
But we will do a few more things and we look at the details.
Cost of that, because that's your next question. What does it cost? Probably a couple of millions of reorganization cost in total over time, and it will bring probably a margin improvement of -- for -- annualized margin improvement of at least 1%.
是。所以在土地方面，我们必须清楚。我们现在对结果不满意，太平了。当我展示市场时 - 我们主要在Land工作的基础设施市场的增长速度比现在的Fugro业务快，或者至少预测显示增长更快。因此，我们希望明显改善那里的利润率，这也是盈利增长战略的一部分。所以它一直都包含在那里。但我们会定期审查。所以我们会在需要时采取额外措施。这不是我们在一个特定领域中大幅介入的东西。这真的是关注业务的细节，并说，也许，这个服务项目可能在特定领域。
For the group.
For the group, yes.
Luuk from Banque Degroof Petercam. A couple of questions. If I look at Asia Pacific, then you're scaling down your business to improve profitability. The backlog is still coming down. Can you explain how far you are in that process in the sense to what extent -- when do you expect the backlog to stabilize? And when should we see an effect on revenues? It's the first question.
来自Banque Degroof Petercam的Luuk。 几个问题。 如果我看一下亚太地区，那么你就会缩减业务规模以提高盈利能力。 积压仍在下降。 你能解释一下你在这个过程中到底有多远 - 你希望什么时候积压稳定？ 什么时候我们应该看到对收入的影响？ 这是第一个问题。
Yes. Okay. So yes, we can answer that. So basically, the key reason, and this is related to Asset Integrity only and primarily also to the IRM business that we had. We had 3 vessels operational there and as you know, unfortunately, we had to hand back the Southern Star earlier this year, which -- basically due to technical problems.
And we also decided to actually move 1 vessel out of the region that was already designed before that, which brings us now down to 1 vessel in that region. This vessel is occupied nicely moving forward. So there is only a limit that you can take on as additional work. So I don't expect the backlog to further decrease significantly. I also don't expect the backlog certainly with 1 vessel to increase significantly. So I think we're going through that reorganization now.
是。 好的。 是的，我们可以回答这个问题。 所以基本上，关键原因，这只与资产完整性有关，主要与我们所拥有的IRM业务有关。 我们有3艘船在那里运营，如你所知，不幸的是，我们不得不在今年早些时候交出南星，这主要是由于技术问题。
我们还决定将1艘船从该地区之前设计的地区移出，这使我们现在在该地区的船只减少到1艘。 这艘船很好地向前移动。 因此，只有一个限制，你可以承担额外的工作。 所以我不认为积压会进一步显着下降。 我也不认为一艘船的积压肯定会大幅增加。 所以我认为我们现在正在经历这种重组。
Okay. That's clear. And the second question is on the covenants. Obviously, year-end will be clearly better, but if I look at Q3, then typically the working capital can move in any direction and the cash flow as well. On the other hand, the outlook for the EBITDA is clearly better. How comfortable are you that you will also remain well within the limits in Q3?
好的。 这很清楚。 第二个问题是关于契约。 显然，年终会明显好转，但如果我看看第三季度，那么通常情况下营运资金可以向任何方向和现金流方向发展。 另一方面，EBITDA的前景明显好转。 你有多舒服，你还能在第三季度保持在极限之内？
Very comfortable. So we will stay within our covenants in Q3 and in Q4. And so that will happen. Yes.
非常舒服。 因此，我们将在第3季度和第4季度遵守我们的盟约。 所以这将发生。 是。
ABN AMRO, [indiscernible]. A couple of questions on [RCF] side. The RCF is extended until May '21. What was the extra fee? And was it already booked in 2Q '19?
ABN AMRO，[音频不清晰]。 关于[RCF]方面的几个问题。 RCF延长至21年5月。 额外费用是多少？ 它是否已于19年第二季度预订？
Yes. The extra fee was a few basis points, so neglectable. So nothing big. The terms and conditions stayed exactly the same. No change. So it's for us a very good extension of the facility.
是。 额外的费用是几个基点，所以可以忽略不计。 没什么大不了的。 条款和条件保持完全相同。 没变。 所以这对我们来说是一个很好的扩展设施。
On the corporate cost, can you explain how large the headquarter costs were in H1? And how many of these costs were booked on Seabed Geosolutions?
关于企业成本，您能否解释一下H1的总部成本有多大？ 这些成本中有多少是在Seabed Geosolutions上预订的？
I think and I'm looking also at the group as well and there is no management allocation fee to Seabed, so 0.
Christian Brunke, Kepler Cheuvreux. A small question on the EBIT margin. I see that if you would have achieved the same EBIT number in Americas as in H1 2018, the EBIT margins of your core business would have been 4.9%. That's pity. For H2, do you expect a positive EBIT contribution coming from the Americas?
Christian Brunke，Kepler Cheuvreux。 关于息税前利润率的一个小问题。 我看到，如果您在美洲获得与2018年上半年相同的EBIT数字，您的核心业务的息税前利润率将为4.9％。 真可惜。 对于H2，您预计来自美洲的EBIT贡献是否正值？
I'm not going to, specifically region by region. The reason is what you see also today is because we are more granular in our disclosure. You see -- you will see more ups and downs year-on-year because of maintenance schedules that will be in a particular quarter, in a certain region, in a certain year that were not in the same quarter in that region, in that year. So there will be more swings.
So I don't like to guide on the region-by-region basis for this reason. So the answer is no. There will be swings left and right, but for good reasons, just to be clear. What we only can repeat is that we do expect a further EBIT improvement for the full year year-on-year compared to last year.
我不打算，特别是逐个地区。 原因是你今天看到的是因为我们在披露中更加细化。 你看 - 你会看到更多的起伏，因为维修时间表会在特定的一个季度，某个地区，某个地区，某个地区不在同一个地区，在那个地区， 年。 所以会有更多的波动。
因此，我不喜欢以区域为基础进行指导。 所以答案是否定的。 左右摆动，但有充分的理由，只是为了清楚。 我们只能重复的是，与去年相比，我们预计全年的EBIT将进一步同比增长。
If I want to rephrase question. For all regions, combined, excluding Americas?
I didn't do the math, Christian. Maybe, but again, I'm not going to guide on the regions. It's really -- actually you can be very lucky with this additional disclosure.
克里斯蒂安，我没有做数学。 也许，但同样，我不会指导这些地区。 这真的是 - 实际上你可以非常幸运地获得这个额外的披露。
Take the U.S. as an example.
Oh, yes, the U.S. If you would have only seen the Global Marine results, which you would have seen last year, you would have thought, "Wow, strong improvement in Marine," and you would be very happy. Now we give you a little bit more. And of course, you ask also more and rightfully so, but it gets a little bit tricky to guide at that detailed level. So again, I'm not -- I understand your question, but I'm not going to tell you.
哦，是的，美国如果你只看到去年你会看到的全球海洋结果，你会想到，“哇，海洋的强大改进”，你会非常高兴。 现在我们再给你一点点。 当然，你也会更加正确地提出要求，但在这个详细程度上引导会有点棘手。 所以，我不是 - 我理解你的问题，但我不会告诉你。
Andre Mulder, Kepler. 3 questions. First on this covenant target. You said that net debt was at EUR 570 million, the covenant said EUR 530 million, excluding the liability component of the convertible. Where are you on that covenant?
安德鲁·穆德，开普勒。 3个问题。 首先是这个契约目标。 你说净债务为5.7亿欧元，该公约表示5.3亿欧元，不包括敞篷车的负债部分。 你在那个约中在哪里？
On this additional covenant.
The EBITDA floor you mean for the...
At this additional covenant related to the leased vessels?
Okay. Yes. So the EBITDA floor for the second quarter was EUR 115 million and in the financial statements, which are on the web, you can see that's based on the covenant definition, which includes the full result of Seabed, it's EUR 117.7 million. And it was EUR 105 million end of Q1 this year.
好的。 是。 因此，第二季度的EBITDA底线为1.15亿欧元，在网上的财务报表中，您可以看到这是基于契约定义，其中包括Seabed的全部结果，它是1.177亿欧元。 今年第一季度的收入为1.05亿欧元。
Second question, on CapEx, has scaled-down from EUR 90 million to EUR 70 million. Can you tell us what happened there?
I can be -- it's not a scale down.
我可以 - 这不是规模缩小。
It's not a scale down. Because we guided for EUR 90 million inclusive of Seabed Geosolutions.
这不是规模缩小。 因为我们引导了9,000万欧元，包括Seabed Geosolutions。
That's fully responsible for that difference.
Yes. It's excluding Seabed.
And last, you stepped up your efforts to sell Seabed. In terms of timing, wouldn't it be better to show what the Q3 and Q4 results look like after a bad first half?
I think we have been clear about the fact that we expect this better second half of the year. We have said that before. There are some changes now, as Paul referred to, that one project is actually running into Q3 and will still have negative impact on the results of Seabed. But we can still hold onto the phrase that second half will be significantly better than the first half.
我想我们已经明确了这一事实，即我们期望今年下半年好转。 之前我们已经说过了。 正如保罗所说，现在有一些变化，一个项目实际上已经进入第三季度，并且仍然会对海底的结果产生负面影响。 但我们仍然可以坚持下半场明显优于上半场的短语。
And on the price, you said it's now more directed towards disposal. Is this indicative of the potential price that you get there?
In the recent assessment of fair value, of course, every bit can be somewhat different, but this -- we have done an assessment and this has come out of it, yes.
托尼，这是一个更难回答的问题，部分原因是因为我们过去曾经想到过我们错了。 我确实认为BLA与NDA确实有些延迟，如果它是NDA，我想我们会说这是一个2020年的项目，应该在2020年通过备案开始显示一些积极的结果。 我认为现在更多的是2021/2022类型的时间表，让我们开始从中实现物质利益。 毫无疑问，BLA在某种程度上推迟了一些事情，但显然BLA也有好处，比如12年的排他性等等。 但是，再一次，这是我们的一点猜测。 根据我们在业内与人们交谈的人和期望，这是一个明智的猜测，但它肯定也会因此而有所不同。...
Can you give us a bit more detail on who the buyers are? In terms of what industry or...
No, we cannot.
Martijn den Drijver
Martijn den Drijver. You stepped up the effort to sell Seabed and you're expected to be dealt with during the year. For Global Marine, you're dependent on the HC2. But also I just want to know, with respect to your other indirect interests, have you stepped up the efforts as well to divest those businesses? And is there also some kind of time frame of within a year?
Martijn den Drijver。 你加大了出售Seabed的力度，预计你将在这一年内得到处理。 对于Global Marine，您依赖于HC2。 但我还想知道，就你的其他间接利益而言，你是否也加大了剥离这些业务的力度？ 一年之内还有某种时间框架吗？
No. That's a slight -- you referred to Finder, obviously, in Australia. That's a slightly different situation there because this is more a multiyear investment that has been done. You need to choose the right moment to divest anything and that's also related to Seabed Geosolutions. Obviously, we feel that this is the right time. For Finder, this is not the right time yet and that will differ for each of these lines that are mentioned in the presentation. So there will be over time steps that we might be able to take, but nothing in the short term.
不，这很轻微 - 很明显，你在澳大利亚提到了Finder。 这种情况略有不同，因为这是一项多年的投资。 你需要选择合适的时机剥离任何东西，这也与Seabed Geosolutions有关。 显然，我们觉得这是正确的时间。 对于Finder来说，这还不是正确的时间，并且对于演示文稿中提到的每一行都会有所不同。 因此，我们可能会采取一段时间的步骤，但短期内不会有任何进展。
Martijn den Drijver
Could you give some guidance with respect to the time line? Will it be within -- after 3 years or first starting after 5 years or something like that?
I think if you look at what you see there, the closest that is to some return is related to one of the -- the Bedout permits, so Dorado well is the -- Dorado-1 is drilled. I think if you follow the news and see when that starts to get into production then you have an idea on what the return could be.
我想如果你看看你在那里看到的东西，最接近某些回归的是与其中一个 - Bedout许可，所以Dorado井是 - Dorado-1钻了。 我想如果你关注新闻，看看什么时候开始投入生产，那么你就可以了解回报是什么。
Quirijn Mulder from ING. Congratulations with your excellent second quarter results moving forward.
来自ING的Quirijn Mulder。 祝贺你在第二季度取得优异成绩。
I would like to ask you about the covenants. Is there any change in covenants when you have sold your Seabed Geosolutions activities? That's my first question. Because I think it has an impact. And second question is about utilization rates. I understood this second quarter much better. How much further then do you think you can go with your utilization rate? And does it also include some short-term charters like for the U.S. you had in the second quarter?
我想问你这些契约。 当您出售Seabed Geosolutions活动时，契约是否有任何变化？ 那是我的第一个问题。 因为我认为它有影响力。 第二个问题是关于利用率。 我对第二季度的了解要好得多。 您认为自己的利用率能进一步提升多少？ 它是否还包括一些短期租约，例如你在第二季度的美国？
Yes, you want to?
Yes, I'll take the first one and you take the second one. So the covenants as such don't change, the definition of the covenants, Quirijn. But, of course, Seabed will be removed. So for the last 4 quarters, so whatever result was in there, so if you would now take out, as per today, the Seabed from the covenants, in the last 4 quarters, we had a negative EBITDA of EUR 20 million. You can increase the EBITDA and then depending on the proceeds that will come in, reduced net debt with similar amounts and do the math. But the definition as such will not change.
是的，我会拿第一个，你拿第二个。 所以这些契约不会改变，契约的定义，Quirijn。 但是，当然，Seabed将被删除。 因此，在过去的四个季度中，无论结果如何，所以如果你现在可以从今天的契约中取出海底，在过去四个季度中，我们的EBITDA为负2000万欧元。 您可以增加EBITDA，然后根据将产生的收益，减少类似金额的净债务并进行数学计算。 但这样的定义不会改变。
Okay. Then your question on utilization. Indeed quarter 2 was significantly high utilization, 80% coming from 72%, which is obviously contributing to better results on the Marine side and the majority of the utilization is related to site characterization. What can we expect more?
Well, if you look at a region like Europe, but even also in the Americas, if you look forward then all the owned capacity will be fully utilized. And there is obviously positive, but we also need additional third-party vessels, which is a healthy situation because you never want to rely only in your busy periods on your own capacity because when you end up in the low season activity, you want to be able to scale down, which is very important. That is part of the business model.
And the third-party vessels were -- the numbers were quite significant and in some regions you have to basically get another additional amount of vessels on top to be able to execute your work. So in the Americas, we had a significant amount of vessels, third-party higher, especially in the first half when we had some of our own capacity down.
而第三方船只 - 数字非常重要，在某些地区你必须基本上获得另外数量的船只以便能够执行你的工作。所以在美洲，我们有大量的船只，第三方更高，特别是在上半年，当我们有一些自己的容量下降。
Okay. Then my traditional question about Brazil. Maybe you can elaborate on that? And about APAC, maybe you can give me some idea about the situation there because you have removed one vessel, Southern Star, out of question now. Do you think you can sustain activities there with 1 vessel? Is that enough? Or do you, in the midterm, need at least 2 vessels given that you have still couple of contracts, have to be executed for Shell or Chevron whatsoever?
好的。 然后是我关于巴西的传统问题。 也许你可以详细说明一下？ 关于亚太地区，也许你可以让我对那里的情况有所了解，因为你现在已经删除了一艘名为Southern Star的船只。 你认为你可以用一艘船在那里维持活动吗？ 够了吗？ 或者你在中期需要至少2艘船，因为你还有几个合同，必须为壳牌或雪佛龙执行任何手续？
Yes. Good question. Thank you, Quirijn. I'll start with the last one. Basically, Asia Pacific, I think we definitely need to ramp up capacity now and then and you have seen it over the last period of time as well. We have used an additional third-party vessel for a project. We'll contract that for a certain period of time. It's a fine business model, same as I just explained. There's no problem in hiring in capacity if you have peak activity. So we'll continue to do that. That's still possible in the market for sometimes good rates as well. So we'll continue to run with that model rather than permanently committing to a long-term chartered vessel. So that's on APAC.
Brazil, I'm not sure what you referred to, but what I can say about Brazil is that we have basically a few contracts on the diving side, diving saturation projects that have been tapered down over time and they came to an end. Also, on the air diving side, a contract came to the end and this is now picked up by a local party there, which means that the diving probably stops certainly for Fugro for a period of time or maybe even permanently.
That means, of course, there's only one vessel left in Brazil?
We have the Aquarius and there is also -- that's our own vessel. We also have more ROV work on third-party vessels.
我们有水瓶座，还有 - 那是我们自己的船。 我们还有更多的ROV工作在第三方船只上。
So you're not aggressively -- are you not bidding at all in -- anymore in Brazil for big projects from Petrobras for example?
所以你并没有积极地 - 你是不是在竞选 - 在巴西为巴西国家石油公司的大型项目而不再竞价？
We are, but that's more on the ROV side. So we're going to supply ROVs, which is, in fact, also replacing diving work, so to say, which is a trend in the industry where in many places in the world, they try to actually get divers out of the water, because it's high-risky, to actually replace it with robotics -- underwater robotics like ROVs.
我们是，但在ROV方面更多。 因此，我们将提供ROV，事实上，这也正在取代潜水工作，所以说，这是一个行业的趋势，在世界上许多地方，他们试图让潜水员离开水， 因为它是高风险的，实际上用机器人取代它 - 像ROV这样的水下机器人。
And that's still on the tripartite discussion with the guys from, what is it -- the vessels are being -- still being in the contract with the partners.
而这仍然是与这些人的三方讨论，这是什么 - 船只正在 - 仍然与合作伙伴签订合同。
Some of these contracts that we bid for indeed, but there are various parties where we do that with, so we have no fixed partnership there. We basically use everything that is applicable for a particular project and then obviously, the Fugro Aquarius.
我们确实竞标了这些合同中的一部分，但我们这样做的各方都有，所以我们在那里没有固定的合伙关系。 我们基本上使用适用于特定项目的所有内容，然后显然是Fugro Aquarius。
A question on the backlog. And Marine up 1%, but result of quite a diverse development of site characterization, up and robust, and Asset Integrity down significantly. Can you put a bit of a number behind those words?
关于积压的问题。 而Marine则增长了1％，但是由于场地特征，向上和稳健以及资产完整性的显着下降而导致了相当多的发展。 你能在这些话背后加上一些数字吗？
We're not releasing per business line exactly what the backlog has been globally. And basically, what we can say is that Marine Site Characterization is up because of the market obviously recovering there in the early cyclical part of the market, both combination of oil and gas coming back as well as offshore wind. If you look at Asset Integrity, by design, as we said, Asia Pacific, but also in other areas, focused on profitable work, prices need to stabilize.
And we just spoke about Brazil, which also has an impact on the backlog moving forward. So Asset Integrity is for some good reasons down in Brazil and APAC, but also, in general, worldwide because we focus on the profitable work and this is late cyclical business, which is obviously later in recovery. And we have said that we see a turnaround in this business this year in 2019 and we still feel that this is indeed happening.
我们并没有准确发布每个业务线正是全球积压的内容。 基本上，我们可以说海洋场地特征化是因为市场明显在市场的早期周期性区域恢复，石油和天然气的组合以及海上风能回归。 如果你看看资产完整性，按照设计，正如我们所说，亚太地区，还有其他领域，专注于盈利性工作，价格需要稳定下来。
我们刚刚谈到了巴西，这也对未来的积压产生了影响。 因此，资产完整性在巴西和亚太地区有一些很好的理由，但总的来说，在全球范围内，因为我们专注于有利可图的工作，这是后期的周期性业务，显然是在复苏后期。 我们已经说过，我们看到2019年这项业务出现转机，我们仍然觉得这确实在发生。
But that -- are we looking for an increase of 10% or 20% in that direction without mentioning the decimals?
但那 - 我们是否在寻找这方面增加10％或20％而不提小数？
You mean in Asset Integrity?
In the backlog development.
In the backlog in the future. It...
For what happened in the first half.
I'm not sure if I understand it.
This is a robust increase, but here we don't look at, let's say, a 10% increase or a 20% increase. Give us a little indication.
So the backlog towards the end of June, I think that's what you referring to. So going forward, this is growing year-on-year from Marine site characterization. I don't give you a precise number, but if 10%, you're closer than 20%, it's double-digit. That's what I can say. But it's close to 10% than to 20%. And Marine is entirely, of course, the other way.
所以6月底的积压，我认为这就是你所指的。 因此，未来，这一点与海洋网站特征描述相比逐年增长。 我没有给你一个确切的数字，但如果10％，你接近20％，那就是两位数。 这就是我能说的。 但它接近10％而不是20％。 当然，海军陆战队完全是另一种方式。
A bit about pricing. It's quite that the site characterization in Marine is -- pricing is better because there's somewhat competition between what you said last year between wind and oil and gas. With regard to Asset Integrity, there is no pricing. Do you -- when do you think the pricing in Asset Integrity will go up? Is that 20% or 20s?
有点定价。 海洋公司的现场特征就是 - 定价更好，因为你去年所说的风能和石油和天然气之间存在一定的竞争。 关于资产完整性，没有定价。 你 - 你认为资产完整性的定价什么时候会上涨？ 这是20％还是20s？
Good question, but, in actual fact, we already said that we see some -- in some areas of the world, pricing increases coming through in Asset Integrity as well. To say that across-the-board is not possible yet. Site characterization, true. That's moving up obviously because there's more competition between the various projects that are ongoing.
And I expect Asset Integrity also to basically bounce back during the course or at the latter part of the year and then moving forward. This is in particular areas of this market. Does that mean that all the Asset Integrity activities through the whole industry are coming back during the course of this year and next year? I cannot say that and I will not say that.
好问题，但实际上，我们已经说过，我们看到一些 - 在世界某些地区，资产完整性也会带来价格上涨。 说完全不可能。 网站特征，真实。 这显然正在上升，因为正在进行的各种项目之间存在更多竞争。
而且我预计资产完整性也会在整个过程中或在今年下半年基本反弹，然后继续向前发展。 这是该市场的特定领域。 这是否意味着整个行业的所有资产完整性活动都会在今年和明年期间回归？ 我不能这么说，我也不会这么说。
A follow-up question on cost inflation. Your own capacity is filling up quite well at the moment. Can you comment about how the capacity in the market is changing into what extent you see pressure on the rates you pay for vessels you hire or new staff that you need and things like that? And what extent you can pass it on to customers and new contracts as well?
关于成本膨胀的后续问题。 你自己的能力目前正在很好地填补。 您能否评论一下市场容量如何变化，您认为您支付的船舶费率或您需要的新员工以及类似费用的压力程度如何？ 您可以在多大程度上将其传递给客户和新合同？
Yes, this is obviously very different between different areas of the services that we supply. So if you look at the early cyclical business where we see obviously rates improving somewhat, which is not to the level that we want, obviously. Let's be clear, everything still needs to further improve. We feel that the cost inflation is still under control. There are still vessels that we can mobilize for good pricing. Nevertheless, moving forward, you can expect more pressure on the system, also related to personnel and, therefore, prices need to go up. It's very clear. And we have been also very clear to our customers, we have sent out letters that prices will go up moving forward.
是的，这在我们提供的服务的不同领域之间显然是非常不同的。 因此，如果你看一下早期的周期性业务，我们看到明显的利率有所改善，显然不是我们想要的水平。 让我们明确一点，一切仍需要进一步改进。 我们认为成本膨胀仍在控制之中。 我们仍然可以调动船只以获得良好的价格。 然而，向前发展，你可以预期系统会受到更多压力，也与人员有关，因此价格需要上涨。 很清楚。 我们也非常清楚我们的客户，我们发出了价格将继续上涨的信件。
In principle, short-term charges, we would only, of course, charge if -- in this market now and if we see that we can make a healthy margin on a project, that's never a guarantee because issues can happen, of course, during a project. But suppose if prices were to go up and we could not reflect it in the price then maybe we'd not move the project forward. So that makes that a more easier decision.
原则上，短期收费，当然，如果 - 现在在这个市场中，如果我们看到我们可以在项目上创造一个健康的利润，那么我们只会收费，这当然不是保证，因为问题可能发生，当然， 在一个项目中。 但是假设如果价格上涨并且我们无法在价格中反映价格，那么我们可能不会推进该项目。 这样就可以做出更容易的决定。
Any other questions? If not, I would like to thank everybody also on the webcast for your attention and have a nice afternoon. Thank you very much.
还有其他问题吗？ 如果没有，我还要感谢所有人在网络广播上的关注，并祝你有个愉快的下午。 非常感谢你。
A - Paul Verhagen
Yes, thank you all. Bye.
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