Sonae SGPS SA (OTC:SOSSF) Q2 2019 Earnings Conference Call August 22, 2019 10:00 AM ET
Sonae SGPS SA（[OTC：SOSSF]）2019年第二季度收益电话会议2019年8月22日美国东部时间上午10:00
João Dolores - CFO & Director
Paulo Simões - Former Head, Portfolio Management
Rui Almeida - Director
Luís Mota Duarte - CFO & Executive Director, Sonae Sierra
- JoãoDolores - 首席财务官兼董事
- PauloSimões - 投资组合管理前负责人
- Rui Almeida - 董事
- LuísMotaDuarte - Sonae Sierra首席财务官兼执行董事
Timothy Attenborough - Grupo Santander
João Pinto - JB Capital Markets
José Rito - Caixabank BPI
- Timothy Attenborough - Grupo Santander
- JoãoPinto - JB Capital Markets
- JoséRito - Caixabank BPI
Welcome to the Sonae's First Half 2019 results conference call. [Operator Instructions].
I would now turn the conference over to Mr. João Dolores. Please go ahead, sir.
欢迎参加Sonae 2019年上半年业绩电话会议。 [操作员说明]。
Hello. Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome and thank you for attending Sonae's results conference call for the first semester of 2019. And together with me today, I have the CFOs of our businesses, Rui Almeida, from Sonae MC; Paulo Simões from Worten; Miguel Moreira from Sonae Fashion; Luís Mota Duarte from Sonae Sierra; and also our Investor Relations team. I will start by giving you the performance highlights for each individual business in the portfolio, and then I will cover Sonae's consolidated figures for the semester before opening up for Q&A.
Starting with the businesses. Sonae MC. Sonae MC had another strong quarter of sales performance, market share gains and underlying EBITDA growth. In the first half of the year, turnover reached €2.2 billion, an increase of 10% year-on-year with a strong like-for-like growth of 3.9%, mainly driven by increased volumes. And note, regarding the expansion program, which continued with 30 new company operated stores, which includes five Continente Bom Dia stores, which is, as you know, our proximity format. In terms of profitability, Sonae MC's underlying EBITDA margin increased 40 basis points. This was driven by the positive impact of transportation lease agreements which were reviewed in Q2 and now fall under the IFRS 16 accounting standards. Without this effect, the margin would have stayed in line with last year at 9.1%.
I would also like to highlight the integration of Arenal in Spain, which is evolving according to plan. Arenal posted solid double-digit growth in the semester and is in process of executing an important expansion plan in Spain. It opened up one flagship store in the first of the year and already two stores in Q3.
Looking at Worten. Worten had a better sales performance in Q2 than in Q1, with 2% like-for-like growth. In the semester, turnover stood broadly in line with last year at €473 million. I would like to highlight the growth of online sales, which stood above 50% in the semester, which is good evidence of the efforts the business is doing in the digital front. On the other hand, profitability decreased when compared to last year's results, and the performance in Spain Mainland was particularly disappointing. We have decided to implement an ambitious program in Spain, targeted at improving probability in this geography and this will happen in the near term. This program includes a reduction of local head office costs and also closing a number of loss-making stores in the coming months.
Regarding Sonae Fashion, the business achieved a very positive performance in Q2 across all brands, with a total like-for-like sales growth of 10.2%. In the first half of the year, turnover grew 7.5% like-for-like and 3.5% year-on-year. This was mainly driven by a strong omnichannel evolution across plans. This top line performance and also the ongoing transformation plan fueled the improvement in profitability. Underlying EBITDA increased €2.3 million and reached a margin of 6.3% in the first semester. It's worth highlighting that all brands have been increasing in also e-commerce sales very strongly. In the semester, online sales increased by more than 30% year-on-year as a whole in the business.
你好。大家下午好，欢迎并感谢您参加2019年第一学期的Sonae成果电话会议。今天和我一起，我有来自Sonae MC的我们业务的首席财务官Rui Almeida;来自Worten的PauloSimões;来自Sonae Fashion的Miguel Moreira;来自Sonae Sierra的LuísMotaDuarte;以及我们的投资者关系团队。我将首先向您介绍投资组合中每个业务的业绩亮点，然后我将在开始进行问答之前涵盖Sonae在该学期的综合数据。
从企业开始。 Sonae MC。 Sonae MC的销售业绩，市场份额增长和潜在的EBITDA增长再次强劲。今年上半年，营业额达到22亿欧元，同比增长10％，同比增长3.9％，主要受产量增长推动。请注意，关于扩展计划，该计划继续推出30家新公司经营的商店，其中包括五家Continente Bom Dia商店，如您所知，我们的接近格式。在盈利能力方面，Sonae MC的基本EBITDA利润率增加了40个基点。这是由于第二季度审核的运输租赁协议的积极影响，现在属于IFRS 16会计准则。如果没有这种影响，保证金将与去年保持一致，为9.1％。
ISRG, which as you know is the entity resulting from the merger between Sport Zone and JD Sprinter, maintained a strong track record and continue to post solid growth levels. Turnover in the six months ending in early May increased 41% year-on-year, and EBITDA almost doubled from €13 million last year to €25 million this year, implying a margin of 7.8%. JD and Sprinter continued to show very positive results and the refurbished Sport Zone stores are including sales and profitability at high double-digit rate, which is also a very good sign. And this is happening by leveraging new store layouts and operating models as well as different assortments which are appealing to consumers both in Portugal and in Spain. The contribution of IFRS to Sonae's accounts increased €6 million year-on-year and we expect further improvements in this contribution in the near future.
Sonae Financial Services had another positive quarter with both financial and operational indicators growing significantly year-on-year. Turnover increased by 20% year-on-year in the semester to €17 million and underlying EBITDA was up by €2 million, reaching a margin of 23%. The Universo Card reached another important milestone in June, it surpassed 800,000 cards and market share of total credit card production reached 12.5% in June, up from 11.3% last year.
Sonae Investment Management continues to actively manage its portfolio of investments. In the first half of the year, the company invested in four new tech companies in different areas, such as cybersecurity, data analytics for retail and also telco technology, mainly mobile network automation, and has recently sold its stake in both Saphety and Wedo, with the latter transaction only affecting our accounts in Q3. Regarding operational performance, in the first semester turnover grew 30% to €93 million. This was fueled by the integration of two new cybersecurity companies, which we recently added to the portfolio. In any case, on a comparable basis, turnover would have grown 13% year-on-year. Underlying EBITDA stood at €0.3 million in the first semester, mainly influenced by the consolidation of recently acquired companies and also by a less positive performance of Wedo, which still impacted our accounts in this quarter.
Moving on to Sonae Sierra. Sonae Sierra had a quite positive growth in operational terms, registering a 4.8% like-for-like growth in tenant sales and 4.1% in rent. Proportion of EBIT increased 5.7% year-on-year to €55 million in the first semester, and direct results were up 9% to €36 million. These results are driven both by the positive performance of the investment portfolio and also the services division, which more than offset the impact from the sale of assets. In terms of portfolio management, Sonae Sierra completed several transactions. The main highlight is the merger agreement between Sonae Sierra Brasil and Aliansce Shopping Centers, which was already completed in Q3 and which creates one of the largest shopping center operators in Brazil. Additionally, during the second quarter, Sonae Sierra sold three shopping centers: Dos Mares, LeiriaShopping and Solingen. During Q2, Sonae Sierra recorded a one-off loss in the sale of one specific asset, which is the main driver behind the company's negative indirect income and also behind Sonae's nonrecurrent client, which impact consolidated EBITDA. This was a plan failed of a relatively small nonstrategic asset in a secondary location in Germany, which we co-owned with a financial investor. I must stress that it was an isolated case, which reflects specific transaction dynamics. In total, Sonae Sierra has already sold seven assets this year, three assets in Q3. And apart from this case, all assets, particularly the larger investments were also broadly in line with their book valuation.
ISRG，正如您所知，是Sport Zone和JD Sprinter合并后产生的实体，保持了良好的记录并继续保持稳健的增长水平。截至5月初的六个月营业额同比增长41％，EBITDA几乎翻了一番，从去年的1300万欧元增加到今年的2500万欧元，意味着利润率为7.8％。 JD和Sprinter继续显示非常积极的结果，翻新的Sport Zone商店包括高两位数的销售和盈利能力，这也是一个非常好的迹象。这是通过利用新的商店布局和运营模式以及吸引葡萄牙和西班牙消费者的不同品种来实现的。国际财务报告准则对Sonae账户的贡献同比增加600万欧元，我们预计在不久的将来这一贡献将进一步改善。
Sonae Financial Services还有另一个积极的季度，财务和运营指标同比大幅增长。本学期营业额同比增长20％至1700万欧元，基本EBITDA增加200万欧元，利润率达到23％。 Universo卡在6月达到了另一个重要的里程碑，它超过80万张卡，6月份信用卡总产量的市场份额达到12.5％，高于去年的11.3％。
Sonae Investment Management继续积极管理其投资组合。今年上半年，该公司在不同领域投资了四家新的科技公司，如网络安全，零售数据分析和电信技术，主要是移动网络自动化，最近出售了Saphety和Wedo的股份，后一项交易仅影响我们在第三季度的账户。在运营绩效方面，第一学期的营业额增长了30％，达到9300万欧元。这是由于我们最近添加到投资组合中的两家新的网络安全公司的整合推动了这一点。无论如何，在可比的基础上，营业额将同比增长13％。第一学期的基本EBITDA为30万欧元，主要受近期收购公司整合的影响，以及Wedo的不太积极的表现，这仍然影响了本季度的账户。
继续前往Sonae Sierra。 Sonae Sierra在运营方面取得了相当可观的增长，租户销售增长率为4.8％，租金增长率为4.1％。 EBIT的比例在第一学期同比增长5.7％至5500万欧元，直接结果增长9％至3600万欧元。这些结果既得益于投资组合的积极表现，也受到服务部门的推动，这不仅抵消了资产出售的影响。在投资组合管理方面，Sonae Sierra完成了几笔交易。主要亮点是Sonae Sierra Brasil和Aliansce购物中心之间的合并协议，该协议已于第三季度完成，并创建了巴西最大的购物中心运营商之一。此外，在第二季度，Sonae Sierra销售了三个购物中心：Dos Mares，LeiriaShopping和Solingen。在第二季度，Sonae Sierra出售了一项特定资产的一次性亏损，这是该公司负面间接收入的主要驱动因素，也是Sonae非经常性客户的影响，后者影响了综合EBITDA。这是一项在德国二级地区相对较小的非战略性资产的计划失败，我们与一家金融投资者共同拥有。我必须强调，这是一个孤立的案例，反映了具体的交易动态。总的来说，Sonae Sierra今年已售出七项资产，第三季度已有三项资产。除此之外，所有资产，特别是较大的投资，也大致与其账面估值一致。
On the development front, we would like to point out the expansions of NorteShopping and Plaza Mayor, which are evolving according to expectations. The Designer Outlet at Plaza Mayor is planned to open in Q4. And NorteShopping opened in August, a brand-new food court, which represents Sierra's innovative and on-trend asset management capabilities. Those of you joining us for our Capital Markets Day in October will have the opportunity to see this new space first hand. NAV stood at €1.364 billion, reducing €91 million versus year-end 2018, mainly reflecting a dividend distribution of €115 million.
Regarding NOS. NOS, as you know, has already announced its first half results in July, but we would just like to stress its solid performance yet again in Q2. Turnover grew 1.8% year-on-year. EBITDA increased by 2.8% and net results also increased by 6.4%. The company's transformational plan is on track, and we are witnessing a good free cash flow generation momentum in the company right now.
Finally, looking at our consolidated figures. Sonae showed a solid performance overall in the first half of the year. Turnover increased 11% year-on-year to almost €3 billion, and underlying EBITDA grew €48 million, up 24% to €243 million. This positive underlying EBITDA evolution, coupled with a growth in the equity method results of €25 million, more than offset the negative evolution in nonrecurrent items and led EBITDA to increase 10% year-on-year to €284 million.
All in all, net income group share stood at €38 million, down from last year's €80 million, and this decrease is more than explained by the strong capital gain registered last year related to the Outsystems transaction.
Regarding our capital structure, and on a comparable basis, Sonae's net debt decreased by €131 million year-on-year to €1.19 billion. Considering all asset acquisitions and disposals in the last 12 months, total net debt stood at €1.76 billion at the end of June, after the dividend payments of €88 million. Gearing at the group level continued to decrease and reached 0.5x, and funding costs and average maturities remained at very comfortable levels. All the companies in the portfolio maintained conservative balance sheets. Sonae MC posted a 2.3x net data to underlying EBITDA level versus 2.7x last year. NOS registered a financial net debt to EBITDA of 2x, in line with last year, and Sonae Sierra's LTV decreased to 29%, and the holding LTV stood at 14%.
So overall, we are quite pleased with this set of results, and looking forward, we will remain focused on driving the good operational performance of our businesses up till the end of the year. And we will also continue to pursue our strategy of unlocking the value across the portfolio, which should enable us to further strengthen our balance sheet in the near term. I will now end this brief overview of our first half results and invite all of you to ask questions.
You can please open the session for Q&A. Thank you.
在开发方面，我们想指出NorteShopping和Plaza Mayor的扩张，它们正在按照预期发展。 Plaza Mayor的Designer Outlet计划于第四季度开业。 NorteShopping于8月开业，这是一个全新的美食广场，代表着Sierra的创新和趋势资产管理能力。那些在10月参加我们资本市场日的人将有机会亲眼看到这个新的空间。净资产值为13.64亿欧元，与2018年底相比减少了9100万欧元，主要反映了1.15亿欧元的股息分配。
关于我们的资本结构，以及在可比较的基础上，Sonae的净债务同比减少了1.31亿欧元，达到11.9亿欧元。考虑到过去12个月的所有资产收购和出售，在支付8800万欧元的股息后，截至6月底的净债务总额为17.6亿欧元。对集团层面的杠杆率持续下降并达到0.5倍，融资成本和平均到期日仍保持在非常舒适的水平。投资组合中的所有公司都保持了保守的资产负债表Sonae MC公布的基准EBITDA水平净值为2.3倍，去年为2.7倍。 NOS的EBITDA金融净债务为2倍，与去年持平，Sonae Sierra的LTV降至29％，持有的LTV为14％。
[Operator Instructions]. We will now take our first question.
Can you hear me okay? It's Tim from Santander.
Yes. I hear you.
A few for me, if I may. So great like-for-likes at Sonae MC. You say it's mostly volume. What was the gross to inflation -- the inflation in the quarter? I think it was a little under 1% in the first quarter. And can you quantify what the Easter impact was? And what sort of momentum should we look at going into Q3? Can you sort of tell us about what the exit rate is, please?
And also on MC, the €8 million IFRS Q2 impact, I mean what you're trying to say is realistically we should make a prior year adjustment, seems to be the message. So I was a bit surprised that there was not sort of a little bit more operational leverage coming through, given the very strong like-for-likes.
Yes, and then on Sonae Sierra, perhaps €115 million dividend, can we expect to sort of repeat of that in the coming years? I mean, I think it's just a function of asset sales and capital recycling. So a comment on that, if I may? And one last one. No sale and leasebacks, I think, in the whole of the first half. Has this process stopped? Or is it just sort of on pause for the moment? I'll leave it at that for now and let someone else [indiscernible]
对我来说有一些，如果可以的话。 Sonae MC非常喜欢。你说它主要是音量。对通货膨胀的影响是什么 - 本季度的通货膨胀率是多少？我认为第一季度略低于1％。你能量化复活节的影响吗？我们应该考虑进入第三季度的动力是什么？你能告诉我们退出率是多少吗？
Thank you for your questions, Tim. I will hand it over to Rui to answer the Sonae MC questions, including the one on sale and leaseback, and then I will ask Luís to cover the Sonae Sierra one. Rui?
蒂姆，谢谢你的提问。 我将把它交给Rui来回答Sonae MC的问题，包括出售和回租的问题，然后我会要求Luís报道Sonae Sierra的问题。瑞？
Okay. Tim, this is Rui Almeida speaking. Regarding the inflation rate, in the second quarter it was around 0.1%. And the Easter impact, we said in the last -- our last meeting where we -- last conference call where we had around about 2%, 2 percent points. Because as we -- last time we were together, we said that the first quarter sales were impacted by the Easter effect. The -- without that impact, our like-for-likes would be higher comparing to what we presented in the very first quarter.
Regarding the EBITDA margins, yes, they are impacted by the fact that we were reviewing and completing the -- all the additional transportation lease agreements according to new standards of IFRS 16. Yes, we could -- we are investing a lot, we are grewing a lot -- we grew a lot in terms of like-for-likes during the first semester. We grew almost 4%. And we are very happy with the levels of EBITDA margins as we continue to present very high levels of EBITDA margins. And as we explained, they are very standard figures -- sorry, our benchmark figures that we will need to continue to have in our company and we need to maintain those levels that we feel very confident and very comfortable with. Regarding the third question you raised was related with the sale and leasebacks, right?
好的。蒂姆，这是瑞阿尔梅达说的。关于通胀率，第二季度约为0.1％。复活节的影响，我们在最后一次说 - 我们的最后一次会议，我们 - 上次电话会议，我们有大约2％，2％的积分。因为我们 - 上次我们在一起时，我们说第一季度的销售受复活节影响。 - 没有那种影响，我们的喜欢与我们在第一季度提出的相比会更高。
关于EBITDA利润，是的，它们受到我们正在审查和完成所有额外运输租赁协议这一事实的影响，根据IFRS 16的新标准。是的，我们可以 - 我们投入了很多，我们是在第一学期，我们在喜欢喜欢的方面增长了很多。我们增长了近4％。我们对EBITDA利润水平非常满意，因为我们继续呈现非常高的EBITDA利润率。正如我们所解释的那样，他们是非常标准的数字 - 对不起，我们需要继续在公司中使用我们的基准数据，我们需要保持那些我们感到非常自信和非常舒服的水平。关于您提出的第三个问题与销售和回租有关，对吧？
Yes. Yes, indeed.
So regarding the sale and leaseback, we want the -- we have, in the past, was -- basically, we continue to have the ambition to maintain 40% of our freehold in our portfolio of assets. We are very keen to continue to use assets to sort of very opportunistic bill that we intend to have in our portfolio. So if we see any -- very good opportunity to take it into account, we will consider that or to capital recycle in order to continue to have those 40% in our freehold in our portfolio. I mean, we continue to grow in our company because we will continue to invest heavily in the areas that we show underpenetrated comparing it to our competition and in Portugal as well in the proximity segments in terms of supermarkets.
因此，对于销售和回租，我们希望 - 过去，我们 - 基本上，我们仍然有雄心在我们的资产组合中维持40％的永久业权。 我们非常希望继续使用资产来解决我们打算在我们的投资组合中采用的非常机会主义的法案。 因此，如果我们看到任何 - 非常好的机会将其考虑在内，我们将考虑或资本回收，以便继续在我们的投资组合中拥有40％的永久产权。 我的意思是，我们在公司继续发展，因为我们将继续大力投资我们表现不足的领域，将其与竞争对手，葡萄牙以及超市的邻近区域进行比较。
Okay, Rui. Can I just confirm, sorry, the inflation number that you first gave me, was it 0.1% or 0.9%?
0.1%. 1 point.
Or at least it's the figure that we had.
Okay. And just also on the exit rate, what's the momentum like going into 3Q and are you seeing people trading up?
Yes, people are continuing to trading up in our -- at least in the Portuguese market. There are several categories that are benefiting from that situation because the momentum -- we have benefited from a very good momentum in the Portuguese market. So people continue to trade up -- trading up in several categories in our stores. So we are seeing a very positive momentum.
是的，人们继续在我们的交易中 - 至少在葡萄牙市场。 有几个类别正在受益于这种情况，因为这一势头 - 我们已经从葡萄牙市场的良好势头中受益。 因此人们继续进行交易 - 在我们的商店中进行多种类别的交易。 所以我们看到了非常积极的势头。
This is Luís from Sonae Sierra. So in terms of your question around our dividends, our dividend policy reflects two factors. One is we typically distribute a percentage of our operational profit. And we distribute also part of the proceeds from sale of our assets. The part we distribute if we agreed on a specific basis. The €115 million you've seen, that we paid this year, is a result of the significant asset sales that we did over the course of the last year. We are currently in the market conducting asset sales. So the dividends that we will pay going forward represent that share of the operating profit, but also the rate at which we reinvest and the rate at which we do conduct asset sales.
这是来自Sonae Sierra的Luís。 因此，就您对股息的问题而言，我们的股息政策反映了两个因素。 一个是我们通常分配一部分营业利润。 我们还分配出售资产的部分收益。 如果我们就特定基础达成一致，我们分发的部分。 我们看到的1.15亿欧元是我们今年支付的，这是我们去年进行的大量资产销售的结果。 我们目前正在市场上进行资产销售。 因此，我们将支付的股息代表了营业利润的份额，也代表了我们再投资的比率以及我们进行资产出售的比率。
Okay. So I shouldn't be looking for a sort of a similar number for next year given that you saw significant asset sales last year?
It's very difficult to say, Tim. It depends really on the rate of asset sales.
We will now take our next question.
Can you hear me?
João Pinto from JB Capital Markets. The first one is on Sonae MC. Could you please tell us how the market share has evolved since the beginning of the year? And second question on Worten and this new program in Spain, could you please give us some color on the amount of cost that you expect to spend in this program and how many stores do you expect to close?
来自JB Capital Markets的JoãoPinto。 第一个是在Sonae MC上。 您能否告诉我们自今年年初以来市场份额如何演变？ 关于Worten和西班牙这个新项目的第二个问题，您能否就我们希望在该计划中花费的成本以及您希望关闭多少家商店给我们一些颜色？
Okay. Rui, can you take the first question, then Paulo will take the second one.
Yes, sure. Regarding market share, we increased our market share according to our calculation, our estimates, between 20 to 30 basis points in the Portuguese market in the first semester of this year.
Regarding Worten. So we have started to move ahead with the transformation in the business. Last year wasn't to the competitive contract we have in Spain and that we foresee going forward. So we have decided to close nine stores that we see -- we saw that they are not economically recoverable in the foreseeable future. So we've decided to close them. Those nine stores, with that movement, we should be able to -- in addition to some stages in the quarter, in total, we should be able to save on a yearly basis around €3 million. So that's our expectation.
关于Worten。 因此，我们已开始推进业务转型。 去年不是我们在西班牙的竞争合同，而是我们预见到了未来。 所以我们决定关闭我们看到的九家商店 - 我们看到它们在可预见的未来在经济上无法收回。 所以我们决定关闭它们。 我们应该能够 - 除了本季度的某些阶段之外，我们应该能够每年节省大约300万欧元。 这是我们的期望。
Just a quick follow-up. You should save on yearly basis €3 million, but do you have costs, upfront costs with this program, with I don't know people and so on?
Yes. Obviously, we have a movement that we are doing, we have some cost of closing the stores with the people that we have involved and some with real estate owners. But that's a bit too soon to say because we are still in the negotiation with all those parties. So it's a bit soon to say. And we've said that we think that as far as underlying EBITDA level this year, it should have a neutral impact. Between savings and cost, underlying EBITDA should not move a lot for the year.
是。 显然，我们正在进行一项运动，我们有一些成本与我们参与的人关闭商店，有些与房地产所有者关闭。 但这有点太早了，因为我们仍在与所有党派进行谈判。 所以有点说不久。 我们已经说过，我们认为就今年的基本EBITDA水平而言，它应该具有中性影响。 在储蓄和成本之间，基本的EBITDA今年不应该大幅增加。
We will now take our last question.
José Rito from Caixabank BPI. So my first question is on Sierra, the cash in with the sale of assets in Q2, in the release it is mentioned €450 million of open market value, but how much was this in terms of NAV impact attributable to Sierra. If you could provide a little bit more color on this, it would be good for us. Second question on Sonae MC. A question regarding Mercadona. If you have felt any impact in the surrounding stores or in any specific category related to this? And also in terms of margin optimization that you expect greater flattish margin going forward, have you noticed any changes in terms of competition due to Mercadona. That would be my second question on this.
And finally on Worten. Just a follow up, you mentioned this €3 million potential impact to EBITDA level from the restructuring that you planned for this business, but is this enough to be at breakeven in terms of EBITDA in Spain? That's it.
来自Caixabank BPI的JoséRito。 所以我的第一个问题是关于塞拉利昂，第二季度出售资产的现金，在发布中提到了4.5亿欧元的公开市场价值，但这对于归因于塞拉利昂的资产净值影响有多大。 如果你可以在这上面提供更多的颜色，那对我们来说是件好事。 关于Sonae MC的第二个问题。 关于Mercadona的问题。 如果您对周围的商店或与此相关的任何特定类别有任何影响？ 而且就保证金优化而言，您预计未来会有更大的利润率，您是否注意到Mercadona因竞争而发生的任何变化。 那是我的第二个问题。
最后是Worten。 只是跟进，您提到了您为此业务计划的重组对EBITDA水平的300万欧元的潜在影响，但这足以在西班牙的EBITDA方面达到盈亏平衡吗？ 而已。
Okay. So let's start with Luís answering the Sierra question, then we'll move on to Rui [indiscernible].
Actually I'm not -- not much I understood from the question, but let me try to answer it and if it's not what you're looking for, let me know. But the €115 million that was mentioned is around the -- is basically dividend that Sierra paid to the shareholders [indiscernible] and to Sonae shareholders.
实际上我不是 - 我从问题中理解不多，但让我试着回答它，如果它不是你想要的，请告诉我。 但所提到的1.15亿欧元左右是塞浦路斯向股东[音频不清晰]和Sonae股东支付的股息。
No, no, no. I was mentioning -- in the release, you mentioned €450 million open market value of assets that you took, right? And I was asking how much is the NAV cash in attributable to Sierra?
不不不。 我提到 - 在发布中，你提到了4.5亿欧元的资产公开市值，对吗？ 我问的是，由于塞拉利昂的净资产值是多少？
Okay. The reduction in NAV from the sales is around €62 million. So that's the NAV of the assets that we sold. I hope that was your question.
好的。 净销售额减少约6200万欧元。 这就是我们出售资产的净资产值。 我希望那是你的问题。
Yes. €52 million?
Okay. Rui, can you answer the second on Mercadona, please?
Yes, sure. Well, regarding -- thank you for your questions. Regarding the Mercadona. Mercadona is a very strong player. As you know, we have a lot of respect for how important considering they have been doing a tremendously very good job in Spain and getting a very good market share -- very important market share in Spain as well. But it's too early to give you some -- very important contribution so that is the first impression in Portugal, yes. But we only had opened the first store in the beginning of -- the first store was in the beginning of July. It's too early to give you impact in terms of -- let me give you some figures in terms of impact. Up to now, there are no material impact now in our top line performance. There are only four stores and this is not -- it's not as important as other players in Brazilian market or even a player in the Portuguese market that's opened a new store in the Portuguese market.
Regarding the other issues that you were mentioning, regarding what is the most important contribution that we get from a very important player entering the Portuguese market. Well, regarding the pricing policy, they have a very different pricing policy comparing to ourselves, they view the available price -- pricing policy. We use a totally different pricing policy, we have a high-low pricing policy that we believe this is more suitable to the Portuguese consumption patterns. We continue to have sort of very good advantages because we have a loyalty program with a -- much more information that continues to give us very good advantage in terms of planning the promotional strategy and be very good both in terms of efficiency and effectiveness. And we feel very comfortable to continue to pursue other strategies to continue to lead the market even considering that this very important player, Spanish player, is coming to Portugal with transport as they announced for this year.
是的，当然。好吧，关于 - 谢谢你的问题。关于Mercadona。 Mercadona是一个非常强大的球员。如您所知，我们非常重视考虑到他们在西班牙做得非常出色并获得非常好的市场份额 - 在西班牙非常重要的市场份额。但现在为您提供一些非常重要的贡献还为时过早，这是葡萄牙的第一印象，是的。但我们只在一开始就开了第一家店 - 第一家店是在7月初。现在就给你影响还为时过早 - 让我给你一些影响方面的数据。到目前为止，我们的顶线业绩目前没有任何重大影响。只有四家商店，这不是 - 它没有巴西市场上的其他参与者，甚至葡萄牙市场的一个参与者在葡萄牙市场开设新店。
关于你提到的其他问题，关于我们从进入葡萄牙市场的非常重要的参与者获得的最重要的贡献。那么，关于定价政策，与我们相比，他们有一个非常不同的定价政策，他们认为可用的定价政策。我们使用完全不同的定价政策，我们有一个高低价格政策，我们认为这更适合葡萄牙的消费模式。我们继续拥有非常好的优势，因为我们有一个忠诚度计划 - 更多的信息继续在规划促销策略方面给我们非常好的优势，并且在效率和效率方面都非常好。即使考虑到这个非常重要的西班牙球员，他们今年宣布将以运输方式进入葡萄牙，我们仍然感到非常自在地继续追求其他战略以继续引领市场。
But just a follow up, as Sonae decided to be a little bit more aggressive on prices due to Mercadona in sensitive divisions, following the opening, are you seeing other players doing that or not exactly?
No. No. I cannot tell you that precisely because what we generally are doing, what the company is generally doing is a, sort of, promotional activity when they are launching -- competitors are launching a very specific store point because we are dealing -- we launched one store in the fall. We see that some competitors, but not all, they generally constitute of special campaigns and promotional activity in order to fight against that, right? Basically what competitors do across the country -- across the world, in fact, in order to compete when a new player is entering in a -- especially a specific market, frankly I don't know if we can say, I think it's very -- too soon to say if we will have a different price positioning or a different pricing -- different margin positioning towards this market because I think it's too soon. Even the range. We didn't change a lot in the -- in fact, we didn't change the range. We are improving the range, as we are improving every day the range to offer to our customers according to the [indiscernible] we offer to our customers. So frankly, I don't see much difference between what we were having last year, for instance, and what we are having today
没有。我不能告诉你，正是因为我们通常在做什么，公司通常做的是一种促销活动 - 竞争对手正在推出一个非常具体的商店点，因为我们正在处理 - - 我们在秋季推出了一家商店。我们看到一些竞争对手，但不是全部，他们通常构成特殊的活动和促销活动，以对抗那个，对吧？基本上，竞争对手在全国范围内做的事情 - 实际上，为了在新玩家进入特定市场时进行竞争，坦率地说我不知道我们是否可以说，我认为这是非常的 - 太早说我们是否会有不同的价格定位或不同的定价 - 这个市场的利润率不同，因为我认为这太早了。甚至范围。我们没有经常改变 - 事实上，我们没有改变范围。我们正在改进产品系列，因为我们每天都在根据我们为客户提供的[音频不清晰]向客户提供的产品系列。坦率地说，我认为去年的情况和今天的情况并没有多大区别
José, thank you for your question. But as you know, we see Worten as an ideal operation and we have a lot of integrated activities. So we are not seeing this in Portugal and Spain. And overall, obviously, the savings that we have with closing the stores and the restructuring, some restructuring in Spain, will be supportive for the future results of Worten. But I will not add much more to that.
何塞，谢谢你的提问。 但是如你所知，我们认为Worten是一个理想的运营方式，我们有很多综合活动。 所以我们在葡萄牙和西班牙没有看到这一点。 总的来说，显而易见，我们在关闭商店和重组以及西班牙的一些重组方面的节约将支持Worten的未来业绩。 但我不会为此增加更多。
Okay. But can you confirm that you are -- well, I understand that it's basically an ideal operation, but it seems that the focus of the restructuring is in Spain. So basically, I was trying to get a little bit -- some sense of how much it could represent Spain in ideal space in terms of EBITDA contribution?
好的。 但是你能否证实你是 - 嗯，我明白它基本上是一个理想的操作，但似乎重组的重点是在西班牙。 所以基本上，我试图得到一点点 - 从EBITDA贡献的角度来看，它能代表西班牙在理想空间中的价值？
Yes, we don't disclose EBITDA by geography. So we will not be doing that right now. Again, we see this as an ideal operation. And obviously, what we have started to do was to close stores that we didn't foresee as being economically recoverable in the future. So that was the main reason we have decided to close the stores. The Spanish market is clearly more adaptive and much more competitive than the Portuguese one. So there are some stores that we thought that will defeat this level of competitiveness, and we decided to move accordingly and adopt the business model in that geography. So we'll introduce going forward, but that's all.
是的，我们不会按地理位置披露EBITDA。 所以我们现在不会这样做。 我们再次将此视为理想的操作。 显然，我们开始做的是关闭我们未预见到未来经济可恢复的商店。 所以这是我们决定关闭商店的主要原因。 西班牙市场显然比葡萄牙市场更具适应性和竞争力。 因此，我们认为有些商店会破坏这种竞争力，我们决定相应地采取行动并采用该地区的商业模式。 所以我们将介绍未来，但这就是全部。
Okay. Okay. But can you confirm at least, following the closure of these nine stores, all the stores will be positive EBITDA contribution, at the store level at least?
好的。 好的。 但至少可以确认，在这9家门店关闭之后，所有门店的EBITDA贡献都是正面，至少在门店层面？
Well, it will depend a lot on how the market will evolve going forward, obviously, and we will be attentive as we were up to date looking at opportunities to improve the portfolio of stores in Worten, in whatever geography that we are working in and Spain is not an exception to that. So we'll be looking for opportunities to improve going forward. For the moment, these are the ones that we have decided that we should move ahead and close.
嗯，很大程度上取决于市场将如何演变，显然，我们将会关注，因为我们最近正在寻找改善Worten商店组合的机会，无论我们在哪个地区工作， 西班牙也不例外。 因此，我们将寻找改善未来发展的机会。 目前，这些是我们决定继续前进和关闭的。
There are no further questions at this time.
Okay. So thank you very much everyone for all the questions, and looking forward to speaking with you again in our Q3 results conference call.
Thank you. That does conclude our conference for today. Thank you all for participating. You may all disconnect.
谢谢。 这确实结束了我们今天的会议。 谢谢大家的参与。 你可能都断开了。
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